Tracy J. Sukraw
Bishop-elect Julia Whitworth and Presiding Bishop Michael Curry sit for a pre-consecration interview.
On Oct. 18, as the weekend consecration celebration got underway, Presiding Bishop Michael Curry and Bishop-elect Julia Whitworth took time for an interview with the diocesan communications director, Tracy Sukraw, during which they shared their thoughts on the upcoming presidential election and, among other things, what a consecration is really all about, why they love The Episcopal Church and where there's unrealized potential. The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
What does a consecration mean, not just the rite itself, but the gathering around the consecration?
Presiding Bishop Michael Curry: I think you said it. It's a gathering around. It's a chance for the diocesan community to gather around and to assent to what the Spirit has already done. We see it, we know it happened and this is our bishop! It really is a lovely time. It's exciting!
Bishop-elect Julia Whitworth: For a question like that I haven't all the way thought about, I go back to my school Latin. If I'm not mistaken, the etymology of that would be 'con,' which is 'with,' and 'secration,' I'm guessing, has to do with being sacred, being made sacred. And we do this with a community. A friend of mine, Claire Rodman, Ed Rodman's daughter, wrote me this week and said: Really take in when the whole room affirms you. Really take that in because that's when it's happening.
Curry: That's powerful.
Whitworth: So that really coheres with what you were saying. Just as I'm looking at who's coming, who's already here, there's this whole magnificent diocese, and then, for me personally, all these people who have been part of my walk since birth, just folks that have been in every part of my life as a Christian and an Episcopalian. Your whole life builds up your vocation, and then you need to be affirmed by old friends and new.
Curry: It's holy and wholly, both 'h' and 'w.'
Why do you love this church?
Curry: Well, getting ready to retire, the Church Pension Fund is a great gift!
Whitworth: Thank you, Bishop Lawrence!
Curry: You know, we're not perfect, and that shouldn't come as a surprise, since only God is and the rest of us are not, including the institutional embodiments of us. And yet, sometimes because of ourselves, sometimes in spite of ourselves, the Spirit of the living God works with us just as it did with the first followers of Jesus. And sometimes they got it, and sometimes they didn't. Sometimes we get it, and sometimes we don't. But in spite of all of that, in light of, even, God helps us to get it right sometimes. We may not do it on time, but we get there.
And, I continue to love this church, in spite of its flaws--and trust me, I know its flaws because I know my own--in spite of all of that, God does shine through this thing, through our lives. I've seen it and keep seeing it. I've seen people in this church make a difference, sometimes in the church, but sometimes beyond it. I've even seen this church courageous when I didn't expect it to be. You know, being in a diocese like this one, I remember Barbara [Harris's] consecration. It wasn't a cake walk. But it happened. And she was a bishop of this church, this [Anglican] Communion. There was courage.
I've seen this church stand up for the right things even if it was sometimes in the wrong season, which meant popular opinion was not with us. [Tomorrow] we're ordaining a woman bishop. In 1976 nobody was even thinking about that. Not yet. I was in seminary with women who didn't know for sure if they were going to be really ordained. And they were there under a risk.
We've gotten it right sometimes. Not all the time. But, again, neither did the first happy group of fisherfolk before the Lord came down, as the hymn says. And I'm thankful to be part of that number. So when the saints come marching in--and saints aren't perfect, but they're still the saints, and they're in this church and I've seen them--we'll see them tomorrow. And one of them will be in her baptismal gown. At the very beginning of the service, before we put all the other stuff on you, you'll be in your baptismal gown.
Whitworth: Why do I love this church? Everything Bishop Curry said. One of the things I love about our tradition, our branch of the Jesus Movement, as somebody I once heard say,...
Curry: Oh, I love this bishop!
Whitworth: ...is that we're holding deep tradition and some ancient practices, and holding them lightly so that there's space for the Holy Spirit to move us and work with us and to expand our understanding of what the church can be. I think I'm called to be a cheerleader for our church. We're all called to bear Jesus to the world and invite people in as part of the Great Commission. I don't know of a tradition that does this thing in a way that I like so well, which is to hold the traditions with great care and create the possibility for the Spirit to move us toward more justice, more humility, more cognizance of our histories of supremacy and ability to try to push those evils out while not--and this is not theological language at all--throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I find when people find the Episcopal Church, they're so delighted because they didn't know there was a church that simultaneously affirms women, LGBTQ people, that's working on its histories of racism and oppression and proclaiming that God's justice is justice for everyone, and still holds all of this ancient beauty in our practices. I don't know of a church doing it quite like we do. I love that.
Is there an area of unrealized potential in the church that you'd like to lift up as a challenge or an opportunity moving forward?
Curry: That's a fascinating question.
Whitworth: To me it's 100 percent we don't tell our story well enough. All of us. We are called to tell the story of Jesus Christ in our particular way. I would love every single Episcopalian to proudly invite other people to come to church. I just feel really passionate about this. We have a good thing going here. We should actually be really abundant in our invitation to be a part of it.
Curry: Yes! What she said!
I grew up in Buffalo, and I'm a Buffalo Bills fan and not ashamed to talk about the Buffalo Bills. People would always talk about the Bills no matter how bad it went, how low Buffalo felt about itself, the Bills were a sign of hope and people from Buffalo would talk about the Bills before they'd talk about anything else. Which makes me wonder: We have something good, so we ought to be able to share our experience of that, and what difference that makes for us, and hopefully for the culture and world around us and others. That is not arrogance; that's actually real humility to realize something good is happening and I'm not the reason for it.
Given the current political climate and all the anxiety surrounding us as we’re heading toward a big election, is there a word of insight you have to offer or hope you have for people at this complex time in our national life?
Curry: You know what, I don’t know what’s going to happen. Nobody else does either. I’ve forgotten the year, it was probably in late 1862, before Lincoln had done the Emancipation Proclamation, and everything was bogged down. Lincoln wasn’t moving, he was weighing his options--he was a virtuous person, but he was a politician and he wasn’t moving. Frederick Douglass and Sojourner Truth, they were together, I don’t know who else was in the room, and apparently Frederick was going on and on about how nothing was going to change, and Sojourner Truth got up and said, Frederick, is God dead? If God is not dead, get up and fight. And I think that may be a word for us right now when our heads hang low. Is God dead? If God is not dead, then truth will march on, whatever happens in November or January. There’s a lot at stake.
Whitworth: I went back to Indianapolis to vote, because I felt like my vote might be a little more helpful there, maybe, or at least symbolically so. It gave me hope doing that. I find voting an emotional, faithful act every single time I do it. I was in line, it was Friday afternoon at the early voting site, and right in front of me was a neighbor from around the corner and her 18-year-old son. And the woman checking them in looked at his ID and said, Are you a first-time voter? He said, Yes. And then she called out to the whole room, We’ve got a first-time voter here! The whole room erupted in applause. In the 10 minutes I was there, it happened two more times. I thought, gosh, there’s resurrection in that. Against all cynicism that we could have, people are still understanding their civic duty, their responsibility, their privilege, and participating and showing up. I was so moved. The whole thing gave me hope against all hope.
As religious leaders, as spiritual leaders, I do think part of our job is going to be to hold hope and some fierce commitment, also, to protecting those who might be imperiled. I just feel like it’s our job to say, we pray, we pray, we pray some more, and we vote. And then we hold out hope. There have been really bad times in our nation’s history and our globe’s history and Christians have persevered. That’s our story. So, we don’t know what we’re walking into, but whatever it is, it won’t be the end of the story. We know this, because our story ends a different way. But it’s a fearful time.
Curry: It’s a dangerous time. I remember as a kid, I remember this one particular time that a bunch of preachers were at the house and they were meeting--my dad, he was the only Black Episcopal priest in Buffalo at the time--and it was an ecumenical bunch. At the time I wasn’t paying that much attention to them, but I realize, looking back, they were planning the buses going to the March on Washington. I think about being around that gang over the years sometimes, just as a kid, just kind of there, not realizing the real significance of it. I never heard them once question whether the democracy would endure and prevail. Their whole thing was: Make the democracy truly be what it was supposed to be. I have found myself asking, is this democracy thing going to work? I never expected to ask that. Now, I do believe we don’t give up, no matter what. And, that’s why you need a community. We really need each other.
Whitworth: Our Diocesan Convention is four days after the election. For the theme, I thought, we’re going to be right off this election, and Lord knows what that’s going to be like. Why don’t we just do: We belong one to another. Because whatever’s happening, we’ll need to be reminded that we belong one to another, and that that will buffer and buoy us as we continue marching into this really unknown moment of history that we’re in. We belong to each other, and, going back to telling our story, we are living in this moment where there’s a crisis around loneliness in our country. We need to figure out how to say, Y’all come here. You don’t need to be lonely. Here we’re part of one Body and it’s a Body that stretches back to all the saints that come before us and all the saints that come after.
You represent two new beginnings, Bishop-elect Julia, with your new ministry as a new bishop, and a new beginning for you, Bishop Curry, as you’re looking at retirement and what ministry might look like in that phase. Any thoughts you'd like to share around this time of turning?
Curry: This is the first time that I’m consciously aware of a turning point in my life that I have absolutely no idea what it’s going to be. My wife and kids are sick of hearing me talk about getting this dog, but I’m going to get my dog, Buddy--the dog’s already named, even if the dog doesn't exist yet!--and that’s been something I can name, because the rest beyond that really is more Holy Spirit. I’m not going to do nothing. I’m going to serve somehow, but I don’t need to lead. Whatever gifts I’ve got, I’m going to put them to use, but this for me is really “Come, Holy Ghost, our souls inspire and lighten with celestial fire.”
Whitworth: I have definitely felt like this was a little bit like jumping off something real high--I don’t want to invoke anything that sounds too violent!--but, this discernment process is like none other I’ve experienced where I did feel like I had more agency and knowledge. What cushions it is two images. One, that I’m being held up by the Holy Spirit and angels and everything celestial, and two, that there are all these people that are part of this journey. You don’t do this alone. I love the notion of shared episcope, that as a bishop you share that vocation with the people you surround yourself with in leadership. And, we share it with everyone who is part of our baptismal journey.